Interview with Dr. Chris Sullivan

March 20, 2008

V-L.COM: How and when did you become a Gone with the Wind fan?

Dr. Sullivan: When I started in the 7th grade in Sep 1967, GWTW was to be reissued in Dec 67. I had never heard of it. The “Junior Scholastic” magazine we all got in grade school had a full page ad for GWTW. There were large photos of the 4 stars, and I don’t think I had ever seen such beautiful people before! Especially Vivien. Later I read books about GWTW and how thunderstruck Selznick was when he first saw Vivien when she showed up on the set when they burned the depo, and Myron Selznick said, “David, meet your Scarlett.” I too was thunderstruck, and I was only 12 years old! But I had to wait 3 months for the movie to open, so I bought a copy of the book with my lunch money. I brought it home and my Mom laughed. “How can anyone so little think they are going to read a book that big?” Well as I read it I was torn---I couldn’t wait to see what was on the next page, but I also knew that with every page turned I was that much closer to the end. So when I finally finished it, I did the only logical thing. I flipped the book over and read it a second time.

V-L.COM: What is it about Vivien Leigh that intrigues you?

Dr. Sullivan: Has there ever been anyone more beautiful? Has there ever been a movie so perfectly cast, that even 70 years later the performance is as fresh and enchanting as if it had been made yesterday. I do not think there has ever been a better marriage of actress and role in the history of film to match Scarlett and Vivien. And to think how she was cast at the last minute, after she “took a chance” and left England on a whim and a dream to capture the movie role, as well as the love of her life. This is the stuff of legends. Chase your dream, do the best you can, and the best will happen to you. I have met many people who knew Vivien. People who worked with her professionally, and fans who had a chance encounter---and to a person they all say how kind, intelligent, and gracious she was.

V-L.COM: When did you begin collecting GWTW book & film memorabilia?

Dr. Sullivan: I really don’t know! I just started “accumulating” things without really thinking I was “collecting.” I just saved newspaper clippings, posters, books about GWTW and Vivien. But one fateful day I was offered a signed first edition of GWTW that had its original dustjacket. It was for a lot of money, but I finally decided that this “relic” was something I had to have, because it was a physical manifestation of an emotional experience I had had when I first became a fan of GWTW and VL so I felt it was worth it---and now a signed first ed with DJ is worth 4 times what I paid for it! I was right. I could not have invested any better than the stock market!

V-L.COM: When did you make the conscious decision to become a serious collector? Why?

Dr. Sullivan: Good question. It did get to the point where I had a huge amount of material, but it was disorganized and lacked any sense of focus. I knew I was not someone who could collect Picasso’s or Van Gogh’s, so I focused on GWTW. I had read all the wonderful books on Margaret Mitchell and Vivien and knew that their stories were fantastic, so I sought to collect things that “told their stories,” that could act as illustrations of the great stories of their lives and of the making of GWTW. Then about 18 years ago the Bengaline gown came up for auction. I knew that an important costume like this was a once-in-a-lifetime chance to obtain such an important historical artifact, and if I had this then I had the “hook” that would make the collection desirable for museums. I was right, because everybody loves to be able to see an original costume from a classic film. I will never forget when I found out I had won the costume at auction from my absentee bid. The dress as I received it was on a wire hanger inside a vinyl garment bag! I knew this was a bad thing, so I called a museum near where I live…the Kent State University Museum. I asked to speak to the curator. She was kind enough to come on the phone, and I briefly told her what I had. I could tell she was stunned, and she sputtered, “May I call you right back? I want to talk to the Museum Director!” They invited me to come to the museum the very next day with the dress. When I arrived, the Museum Director (Dr. Jean Druesdow) had 5 or 6 people in her office. She shooed them away, and warmly welcomed me to her office, with her curator Ann Bissonnette. We exchanged pleasantries as I held my wire hanger/vinyl garment bag, and I will never forget Jean’s nervous look at the shabby way I was transporting this artifact. She finally said, “I am sorry, but this is a no-no-no!!”---So I received my first education on proper conservation of fabrics such as this. Jean immediately asked if her museum could display the dress in her museum and I said yes. Later, when Jean and Ann came to my home, saw the scope of my collection, and I was able to tell them all the great stories about GWTW and VL…well, they were enchanted. They immediately opened space not only for the GWTW display, but also a separate display for Vivien. The show ran for 18 months. Visit http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/gwtw/GWTWplan.html to see this display. I owe everything to Jean Druesdow, Anne Bissonnette, and Kent State. They took my entire collection, researched all the stories, and organized my collection to achieve this. They also connected me to other museums, as well as to costume conservation experts, and also a woman from the Smithsonian who hand-made the mannequin the dress hangs on. From this I displayed at Hilton Head Island and Disney World, and now Marietta. From Kent State I learned how museums work and proper conservation techniques. They are the best. If any of you are anywhere near the Cleveland area I strongly urge you to visit the KSU Museum. They focus on fashion, fabrics, antique garments.

V-L.COM: How large is your collection today?

Dr. Sullivan: I don’t know. Every item I have is catalogued on my computer, but I don’t run a tally. There are thousands of things. Marietta displays maybe 75% of what I have. Of course some of my very favorite things I have kept to display in my home! So if you are in Akron, call me and I will happily show off these special things. Most of these are related to Vivien and not GWTW.

V-L.COM: What are your favorite pieces?

Dr. Sullivan: Tough question! Obviously all are special to me. I have a real affection for Ona Munson, who played Belle Watling. Her story is fascinating to me, because in real life she was hardly the type to play the voluptuous Bell Watling. Selznick finally told her that she was cast because of her voice. Ona was a pale, freckled-faced girl with a scant figure. Selznick said that with makeup and costumes they could make her look anyway they wanted. What they could not change was her “world-weary whiskey voice” that embodied Belle. I love that phrase that perfectly describes Ona’s voice and why she was so right for that role. Isn’t it amazing how important a voice is to an actor. It is truly their instrument, and for Ona it won her the role of Belle. So I have Ona’s personal script for GWTW, inscribed to her by Selznick, I also have a hat and purse worn by her in the role—along with a still showing her wearing both garments.

But I also love items that to me are priceless but that I paid nothing. Back in the 1970’s I wrote letters to anyone I could find who had worked with Vivien and I asked if they would just write an anecdote about working with her. I must say that I got an almost 100% reply rate---and many of these people are gone now, yet they wrote wonderful letters about her…and it cost me nothing but postage. So these are very special, because these things represent captured emotions of people who obviously loved Vivien and took time to pen their thoughts just because a dumb fan asked them to! I have letters from Karl Malden, Sunny Lash, Maureen O’Sullivan, Kim Hunter, Olivia de Havilland, Stanley Kramer, Jean Pierre Aumont, Anne Croswell (wrote lyrics to “Tovarich”), Taina Elg, Delbert Mann, Katharine Hepburn, Edward Albee, and many others. They all loved Vivien and wrote wonderful anecdotes, and all I had to do was provide a stamp.

V-L.COM: Describe how the Marietta ‘Scarlett on the Square’ Museum was born.

Dr. Sullivan: The museum briefly ran with another collector and it did not work out….but they wanted to continue to run it as a GWTW Museum and fortunately my collection was one that could move right in and continue the museum. It has been a happy collaboration.

ALSO!!! An alert to all on the website!!! Marietta plans a huge event for July 4th weekend this summer. We want to honor our wonderful service members serving our country. Marietta always has a big July 4th parade, and there will be a GWTW float in the parade. That weekend we will have a “Big Band” party to honor the military. Ann Rutherford, Cammie King, Mickey Kuhn, and Patrick Curtis have already committed to coming! There will definitely be more celebrities coming so please keep the date open! Also, if you have never seen the “Rhett Butler Trucking Company” than this itself is worth the trip to Marietta. This guy has an 18-wheeler that has perfect paintings of scenes from GWTW on his truck. Your jaw will drop when you see this masterpiece!

V-L.COM: What items have you chosen not to display in the museum? Why and where are they?

Dr. Sullivan: In my home I have a painting of Vivien that was done by Orson Welles. She and Olivier were on Broadway doing “Caesar and Cleopatra” the same time Welles was doing “Othello” so they became friends and Welles did this painting and it is gorgeous. I also have an etching of the set of “Streetcar” that is signed by Vivien, Hunter, Malden, and Elia Kazan. I got the Malden and Hunter signatures myself so I love this piece. I have an original costume design painted by Jean Louis, of Vivien’s red dress with boa she wore when she did the “Charleston” number in “Ship Of Fools”. It is signed by Jean Louis and I have with it Stanley Kramer’s recollection of how the Charleston dance was not in the script. Vivien had just done “Tovarich” where her Charleston dance in that musical won her the Tony---so she spontaneously added this dance to her scene in “Ship Of Fools” and Kramer was so astonished at how good it worked he kept it in the film.

V-L.COM: How did you acquire the Bengaline honeymoon gown worn by Vivien Leigh in Gone with the Wind? What condition is it in?

Dr. Sullivan: See above. In fact, the dress is currently in California undergoing a major renovation. As a collector I feal an obligation to properly preserve these artifacts. They are organic and are destined to deteriorate. Plus, when they were made, no one cared if they fell apart. As long as they lasted long enough for their brief appearance on the screen, then they had already exceeded their value. These costumes are incredibly fragile. Also, Vivien as beautiful as she was, had a very short torso and relatively long legs. So a dress with a long skirt and short bodice has an enormous amount of stress around the shoulders and waist. The dress is falling apart at these seams. My conservation artist has placed “stress stitches” in these areas, so that her stitches would break before Walter Plunkett’s original stitches. This lady makes her entire career restoring Hollywood costumes and she is the best. This is her 4th time in 15 years working on the Bengaline gown, being sure it does not deteriorate. I take this very seriously.

V-L.COM: Are you actively searching for pieces to add to your collection? What’s on your wish list?

Dr. Sullivan: I always look out for things---but I must say the value of good things has escalated so much, I can’t afford it anymore!

V-L.COM: Have you had any correspondence with Vivien Leigh’s estate or Suzanne Farrington?

Dr. Sullivan: No….and I would love to communicate with her. But I respect her wish for privacy. I wish she would write her own book.

V-L.COM: Have any GWTW cast members visited the Marietta Museum? What GWTW stars have you personally met?

Dr. Sullivan: Cammie King, Ann Rutherford, Mickey Kuhn, Patrick Curtis, Fred Crane, and Greg Geise have been to the museum. Also, Margaret Mitchell’s nephew and Danny Selznick have been there. Connie Sutherland, our museum director, spent an afternoon last year with Alicia Rhett, who played India Wilkes. She lives in Charleston. I have met Rand Brooks, Butterfly McQueen, Olivia de Havilland, Evelyn Keyes, William Bakewell and Junior Coughlan, all of whom were in GWTW. By mail I also communicated with Mary Anderson and Marjorie Reynolds.

V-L.COM: Do you have any advice for beginner collectors?

Dr. Sullivan: Buy what you love. It has to mean something to you personally, and you will attach your own stories to it. A momento must represent something you have an emotional connection to. Other people will sense your passion when you “show it off” and it is this that gives the item value. Also, be careful on what is offered on the market, especially internet auction sites. I often see things for sale that are clearly bogus. Do your homework and research what you are buying. I think almost any of us “old-timers” who collect would be willing to give advice. Right now I would never buy an autograph on ebay because there are so many forgeries. Also, right now I am seeing a string of items claiming to be artifacts that were used in the film GWTW—silly things like a chair, a lamp, a figurine---but there is no provenance, no proof it really was in the film. Yet I see these things with 30 bids and going for high prices and I just cringe. The sellers offer a “certificate of authenticity” which is worth less than the paper it was printed on. So use your common sense.

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